TIME: Almanac 1995

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<text id=94TT0912> <link 94TO0169> <title> Jul. 11, 1994: Cover:Russia:You Can't Expect Angels </title> <history> TIME--The Weekly Newsmagazine--1994 Jul. 11, 1994 From Russia, With Venom </history> <article> <source>Time Magazine</source> <hdr> COVER/INTERVIEW, Page 44 "You Can't Expect Angels To Appear Overnight" </hdr> <body> Russian Foreign Minister Andrei Kozyrev talks about Zhirinovsky, North Korea and his country's problematic relationship with Washington By Andrei Kozyrev, Henry Muller, James Gaines, Karsten Prager The man walking the tightrope between the demands of Russia's ultranationalists and the desire to bring the country into a closer partnership with the West is Foreign Minister Andrei Kozyrev, 43. In an interview with editorial director Henry Muller, managing editor James Gaines and International managing editor Karsten Prager last week, he spoke about some of his concerns. TIME: What do you expect to accomplish at this week's G-7 summit in Naples? Kozyrev: This is an important, even decisive meeting, since we expect the G-7 to become the G-8 ((with Russia's inclusion)). There should be important discussions on world politics--the situation in Bosnia, Korea, nuclear nonproliferation, other regional issues. But this is just the political aspect. We'll also try to engage our partners in a more substantive discussion of Russian participation in the economic field, since we are becoming a more and more active factor in world markets. TIME: Are you encountering resistance from the G-7 nations to your inclusion? Kozyrev: Yes, of course. It's a peculiar situation: on the one hand, the need to include Russia is understood ((by the G-7 partners)), because it is in the best interests of both Russia and the West. The alternative would be awful: the isolation of Russia and confrontation with the outside world--something everybody wants to avoid. Still, we face considerable difficulties when it comes to practical matters. This is quite natural. Russia is a very special case, since it is a major country with equal interests in the East and in the West. Sometimes, I wonder myself how we can manage to balance these kinds of global interests. Consider the case of Korea. Korea is a direct concern for Russia, probably more than for the U.S., because it is so close to us. Should Korea become a nuclear power, there is a more direct danger to Russia from nuclear fallout than to the U.S. TIME: How do you build new partnerships while convincing everyone that Russia does not have new imperial ambitions? Kozyrev: There is internal strife in Russia. There is a party of war, new imperialists, even fascists. Two days ago, I was so outraged by their attacks against me in parliament that I called them all "political bastards." They had called me a traitor for signing the Partnership for Peace ((with NATO)). I felt I had the right to answer them in kind. Such healthy debate and lovely talk! There is a total lack of political culture in the whole space of the former Soviet Union. The typical Soviet mentality was to take up your rifle and grab power. We were brought up with this idea. One day Comrade Lenin did it, so you too can seize a gun and establish a paradise on earth. Now there is more than one Comrade Lenin in our areas of ethnic conflict. After they take up their rifles, they ask for peacekeeping forces, which really means, "Be with me and help me defeat the other side--if you don't, you're imperialists." That is why we ask--beg--for an international presence. TIME: Have you made any progress in persuading your Western partners not to lecture you? Kozyrev: It's difficult, but I don't think it's a lost cause. Sometimes, though, there is a real lack of sensitivity ((toward Russia)) that strikes me as too much self-assurance, even arrogance. People seem to have forgotten what they learned in cold war textbooks--that there was once an evil empire. You can't expect angels and paradise to appear overnight. Don't complicate my life and lecture me. This leaves me open to criticism from the red-browns, who say Kozyrev is a stooge of the Americans. TIME: What is the alternative? Kozyrev: Talk with ((Vladimir)) Zhirinovsky and with ((Communist Party leader Gennadi)) Zyuganov. Zyuganov drew a parallel between the Partnership for Peace and Hitler's Barbarossa plan for invading Russia! That is their mentality. The alternative is clear. Their scenario is Yugoslavia: use force to crack down on republics and re-establish the empire or whatever you chose to call it. TIME: Are you losing ground to the extremists or are you winning? Kozyrev: Mostly, I feel I am doing both. There is no way to win once and for all, but, hopefully, no way to lose once and for all. TIME: You wouldn't be doing what you do unless you were optimistic. Are you positive about Russia's long-term partnership with the U.S. and the West? Kozyrev: Yes, but what is more important for me is the success of our domestic revolution. I believe we can succeed in seizing this opportunity to make Russia a democratic state. That is key to everything, even if there are those in the West who are not as cooperative as we would like. TIME: Do you see any hope for Bosnia? Can Russia play a special role? Kozyrev: I'm active out of despair. We simply cannot afford to lose any opportunity, since the alternative is clear: there will be a growing confrontation and hostility, and not just in Bosnia, itself. There is a realistic scenario emerging that is a repetition of what happened ((in the Balkans)) at the beginning of the century, when major powers came into conflict. If the U.S. Congress insists on a unilateral lifting of the arms embargo against the Muslims, how can I convince Zuygyanov and Zhirinovsky and the State Duma to keep economic sanctions against Serbia? This could produce a situation where the U.S. may be drawn into supporting one side and Russia into supporting the other. We have to give serious thought to this doomsday scenario. TIME: What about the question of trying some Serbs and Bosnians as war criminals? Kozyrev: Atrocities have been committed by both sides, documented by U.N. observers. Still, the American media have only reported in a mild way about Muslims staging counteroffensives and provocations. There is the mirror situation in Russia, where ((one television network)) has systematically reported on the hardships suffered by Serbs because of the sanctions, never referring to why the sanctions were imposed. The truth of the matter is that there are no angels. As far as Western public opinion is concerned, Russia is seen as protecting those who are bloody butchers. When I deliver mild criticism of the Serbs here, I am seen as a betrayer of our Slavic brotherhood. TIME: Which Russian foreign policy problems are more pressing--those in the former republics, or the relationship with the West? Kozyrev: It depends on the situation. When there is a major crisis like the fighting in Abkhazia or Tajikistan, and we face a flow of refugees and killing, that takes priority. But Bosnia remains very high on the agenda for the Russian public. Our relationship with the West is very important too, especially in the economic field. Building an open society is important to the Russian people. As long as we stick to the democratic path and resist the red-brown ((opposition)), we will be recognized by the outside world. This is why creating the G-8 is so important. It gives the Russian people a clearer understanding that even if there are hardships, even if the recovery takes a long time, as long as we resist the red-browns we are eligible to become a member. This is how international issues translate into domestic politics. It is one reason why the opposition is so hysterical about political rapprochement between the West and Russia. They understand they are losing ground. </body> </article> </text>